Comments on Worlds Qualification

[andyt15064]

Now this has been posted fora while are there any comments that might inform the committee’s discussion at their next meeting?

Andy

[Chris Perry]

Hi Andy

I think the option that best encourages attendance at all events would be good, but I agree that an event with 5 boats should maybe not attract the same points as the nationals with 30+

The number of boats beaten at an event would thus seem like a good way to go, and if this was then across all events it would encourage people who travel and do most events.

I suppose its difficult, given that we want to encourage attendance at events but for world qualification it would pay to attend the events where you know there will be a good number of boats which kind of goes against that principle.

Maybe increase the number of results to count to get people who are keen to qualify doing maybe that one event more than they would normally, which if we all did one more event could boost number across the year significatly.

Not sure is probably the truthful answer, as there are lots of options and probably as many opinions…….

Cheers

Chris

[robert]

Not sure the number of boats you beat really has any real revelance as the standard of the fleet can vary a lot from event to event as well as the fleet size.

The nationals, or say an open at a OK based club, can attract a lot more club sailors for their one outing a year, so the numbers are artifically higher.

Is winning a 20 boat open more worthy of credit than finishing 20th in a 40 boat nationals – when the majority of the top sailors are present at both events? Of course it is. But you’d get the same score.

Also not sure it woud encourage attendence – you do that by maing the event attractive not by changing the scoring system. It might mean that the top sailors only do the high scoring regattas though, so might be self defeating.

If we want to keep it simple then just use the event results rather than races. 4 or 5 events, 3 to count. We play with complexity and new ideas, thinking we are making it better, easier and more attractive and in the end it just becomes a faff.

I’ll shut up now rather than dig myself into a deeper hole

[GBR1501]

a simple way to start… befor we appear to work ourselves into a situation on qualifications….

why dont we declare “if” we are intending/liking to attend the 2013 & 2014 worlds..???

cut to the chase…. we are limited to; a potentinal problematic 12 places or not a problem 24 places due container numbers….

befor we set to taske on solving this “problem” …..do we have one…???

[robert]

2013 yes
2014 probably not

and the other issue is that there are at least three of us who don’t need to qualify to do the worlds, so if there are only 12 slots then are the container spaces offered in terms of the qualification series or who puts their money down first?

[Tony Woods]

I’m not too bothered which system we use, although if we have another system running alongside the travellers system it may get a bit confusing. The only other comment I would make is that we need to ensure that ‘making the team’ means something regardless of subscription for the Worlds.
At Largs when it became clear that the event was going to be less than full the pressure to qualify fell away. I think its important that the guys doing the attending get the bonus of recognition. Team blazer, jacket, letter from H.R.H, meet at Downing St that kind of thing. Well if nothing else a recognition of who the official team is as Andy has done. Good to see all of the ‘one for the road team’ in there. You know who you are.
TW.

[okgorgeous]

Not really sure why we need to change anything myself, as I don’t recall anybody not been able to do a worlds because they did not qualify for a while now. Personally, I’m quite happy with the system we currently have in place, and I would prefer to keep it separate from the travelers trophy results.
See you all on the water soon
Cheers Neil

[shoult]

Why do we limit our World Championship entry?

For most other classes outside of the Olympic circus the Worlds is an Open Event with as many competitors as possible.

Surely the OK class would look great if we could regularly clear 100 boats at an annual event?

Also, without a qualification process, we would probably attract top sailors from other classes who would just do this event. Like it or not, this does give a class a boost when people see familiar names sailing an OK.

Just some thoughts……

[burt]

I think the reasoning is that you cant just hop in and go because its ment to be the best sailors pitted against each other and trying to get our average 30 boats down to 12 or 14 is more of a challenge and can encourage more sailors to come to different events.

It drives the competition up aswell I dont mind which system we use but I am deffinantly going to thailand so I am definatly doing all the worlds qualifyers!

bar maybe the nationals as i have been told to do the fireflys but still undecided

[Si Cox]

Burt you are defo too big for a Firefly!

I can’t say too much as I have hardly done any events, but I did make an effort to do the qualifiers in 2010. Unfortunately, I couldn’t make the Nationals as planned due to work committments. My view is that the current system works although I am a big fan of the CHIPS high points scoring system which over a series is just about the fairest way of scoring. Do a Google search for more info – a lot of clubs and classes don’t like change but I’m sure it will eventually become a common scoring system.

I’m not convinced about the current system of using the individual races to score the qualifiers. In 2010 we lost a race at Weymouth which meant that I wouldn’t qualify unless I attended another event. A better system would be to have more Q’s say 5 or 6 and say the best 3 to count – then using a high points system the cream will rise to the top and it will be up to those who are on the edge of qualifying to attend more events to try and improve their position. With the cost of travelling, families and work/time committments it needs to be remembered that most sailors won’t travel to events unless they are at a very good venue (eg Weymoth/Brixham) or localish. Otherwise, qualifying could become cheque book sailing.

Incidently, the current travellers scoring system needs to have a “best 4 to count” rule as well as otherwise the winner is usually the person who attends the most events not the best sailor. The current system doesn’t encourage me to attend events.

[davecooper]

Si Cox:

Incidently, the current travellers scoring system needs to have a “best 4 to count” rule as well as otherwise the winner is usually the person who attends the most events not the best sailor.

Well, the purpose of the Travellers is to encourage people to go to lots of opens! I think it’s absolutely fine if it isn’t won by the best sailor. It isn’t the National Championship!

As regards CHIPS, I’m sure that it’s ever such a fair system, but considering that the formula to work out your result is

5+95*(((s+1-p)/s)*(1-0.986682*2.7183^(-0.1622*s))+0.81475*2.7183^(-0.1622*s))

it’s just too complicated! How is anyone going to know if the results have been worked out correctly? (and that probably includes the poor sod who’s trying to work them out!)
Dave

[Si Cox]

Dave, We’ll have to agree to disagree. In most classes the travellers trophy is a series with that is worth winning, its almost as important as winning the Nationals – you are the champion over a year at different venues, in different conditions and against a wider range of competitors. I know that I can only do a small number of events each year so I would plan my open meeting sailing around the events that are good venues, within decent travelling distance and fit in with work and family. A competitive travellers series would encourage attendance all round. The existing travellers series is not what I would call competive even if the individual events are.

If you use Sailwave for the results it’s a damn site easier to calculate the results irrespective of scoring system and very easy to upload to a website.

[Tony Woods]

Some young upstart called Nick Craig won it last year. I reckon he has potential!!!

[burt]

so sailing more events means you do better!?

and quite suited to a firefly in a blow! just need a max 8 stone crew or maybe 10 and were flying! (although it is a firefly)

I like the current system as it is comparable for improvement I have gone up the list every year in sailed in the class (not sure what this means but i guess the traveller series works as i do the same amount of events)

the world qualification is an interesting one last year is hard to compare as we knew that it was an open worlds. I probably wont do the nationals this year but still want to qualify so if we drop a race i would be a bit annoyed really.

But then again is the system we use broken in any way?

[Richard007]

Assuming qualification how much would a container to Thailand be? The cost might be the qualifing factor.

Richard
2026

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