Sail Labels

[davecooper]

Okdia’s Acting secretary, Robert the Deaves (hey, they have a special secretary just for acting! Who’d have guessed?) has revealed that from 1st Jan 2016 new sails will have a label! It should look like:

Only with less ‘SAMPLE’ and more number in the white box. The sail maker is responsible for sourcing the label and sticking it on the sail. Oops, correction: buying the label and stitching it to the sail (which answers my next question: “what happens when the label falls off?”). I’m sure this news will produce a small flood of orders as anyone thinking about a new sail rushes to avoid having to shell out for a label!
Dave

[Ken]

Strategic Road Map has to be paid for somehow,

[davecooper]

Just a sails tax then?
Dave

[ChrisBisc]

From comments on European FB page apparently the Danes did not read the Road Map before it was voted on. What else did they miss

[robbo]

So. What is the purpose of a sail label ? – or is it the first stage of restricting who ‘can’ or more importantly ‘cannot’ make a sail. I recall years ago in Fireballs they attempted to introduce such a plan and the sailmakers said ok we’ll charge a fee for fixing the label £50 ! .- the label idea was dropped !
When it says new sails as of …2016 does that mean sails made before that date or sails measured after that date.
Whilst I’m playing D- advocate what do I have to do if I want to have go at making my own carbon mast ? (which I genuinely do- I have no aspirations of ‘producing’ but would like to play around at making my own.

There again it’s taken me forever to access this forum so making me own mast might seem a little ambitious .Cheers

[davecooper]

Hi Robbo,
I guess the sail label is just a money spinner. You’re right, though – sailmakers are expected to buy labels from OKDIA and sew them on the sails and they are certainly going to charge for it, so it’ll cost us more than the face price of the label. On the other hand, I bet nobody will be upset if you turn up at the nationals or the Spring Cup with an unlabelled sail, so maybe it’ll just be an optional extra for people who’re heading for the worlds. Same goes for the mast building – okdia say you should have a license (which is free, I think) to build legal masts, but as long as it measures no-one’s going to be bothered at national level.
Dave

[robbo]

hi dave. I don’t mind really as long as it’s just about money (got to get it somewhere) just the notion that it might creep into being restrictive – my take on dinghy sailing has always been if you’re keen enough to get the plywood /sailcloth on your garage/living room floor ( I’ve done both) then the rules should help you achieve that. I grew up sailing in Hartlepool where a real gent called Joe whitwell did exactly that – I remember him telling me (I was about 14) about all the bend stuff and blood glue etc as he shaved away at his mast with a plane in the dinghy park with wood shavings blowing all over in a full gale – he was the only Ok I ever saw and I grew up convinced they were all nutters!!) . By the way are you the same Dave Cooper who used to be around Fireballs in the eighties – he was a keen photographer and he came from over your way – Cheers Robbo

[Ken]

Welcome to the Forum Robbo, I remember Joe from the old days. Great character I can imagine him telling his stories. Have you a boat currently ?
Have a good look at this link there is most of the information you need. You can always contact the UK Tech Rep if you need any advice/help in build rules etc. Bill Bradburn is the contact email address is on our UK forum. Good luck with your projects keep us informed of your progress. Regards Ken.

http://www.okdia.org/

[davecooper]

Hi Robbo,
Yes, I really agree, and that’s so much part of OK history, too. No, I never was a fireball sailor, and I know Joe Whitwell’s name but I don’t think I ever met him.
Dave

[robbo]

hi ken/Dave

yes I’ve got a boat -bought it from Upper Thames a few weeks back (£300 off Ebay ) .
It’s an Omega 1983 built in 1983. took it up to South Staffs and gave it a go despite being a bit leaky and a bit of a mess on top ( Been painted with car paint which was all damp under and flaking off – Got it all scraped off now AND I weighed all the paint nearly 2 Kilos just on the deck !- the leak turned out to be sloppy Centre B bolt with man’s unshakeable belief in silicone sealant!!- -It is a beautifully made boat with a real eye on weight – very tidy inside foam sandwich with single layer woven fabric ( my man Wayne who is a wizard with glass and carbon said” that is a nice hull”) it’s got a nice full bow and the chine is long and straight well forward. We’ll see ?- I had a few issues with a false start and my mainsheet coming off at a critical moment but I was very pleased although the conditions did play into my situation what with only being 63 Kilos..( I’m gonna get murdered in a breeze and I’ve made a smaller sail to see if I can get away with it when it gets windy -see if there is an optimum point where I can survive and yet still stay in the race – again we’ll see ?. I’ve bought a lightweights carbon mast off Ed B. very nice and a good price which has Quadroupled the value of the boat !!!. Don’t seem to be able to find out any info about Omega other than they briefly built some GRP Fireflys. They only built 2 Ok boats and what was used as a plug ? ( mine is sail no 1983 and the other is 1986) I wouldn’t mind finding the other!!

Cheers Robbo

[Bill B]

I think it is important to be careful here when we are talking about possibly taking the application of the rules lightly.
We should all be complying with the class rules if we wish to sail in class events at club, national and international level.

The adoption of sail labels was passed at an agm and has been incorporated in the rules. Measurers next year should not sign new sails other than as prescribed by signing across the sewn on sail label.

The licensing of mast makers is to try to ensure that masts used and sold for use are built according to the rules and the makers who can fix stickers on have agreed to comply with the license agreement and control the construction and materials used.

If someone wants to make a one off mast using modern materials they should agree to the licensing terms first and comply with the requirements so that their mast can be used as an OK mast.

We all want to be competing in our boats on the same terms and I know that most people go to the appropriate lengths to ensure that their kit complies.

Bill

[robbo]

hi bill . I absolutely agree.I’m new to the class and I just want to get it right. Rules is rules- i saw the post and thought ‘ oh that’s new’
back in the 80’s when GP 14’s had a price cap on sails and sailmakers were’TOLD’ how much they could charge by the association – they introduced labels and made it clear the sailmakers had to buy them . along with some other sailmakers I listed the labels as a fitted extra in our price list – I remember well the ‘ discussion’ with the deputation from the GP association on my stand at the Dinghy exhibition which resulted in me being told they would never measure any of my sails as they were considered ‘over priced’ – never did make any more GP sails- SO when I see the phrase ‘sail labels’ my light comes on ( ha ha).
By the way whilst I’m playing Devil’s advocate for the fun of it I’ve yet to see an OK sail that measures as I interpret the rules. (2015 rules )
Cheers

[robbo]

Mmm Update on that.

In my exuberence to get started I printed off the Current rules – read the print off them and set about making myself a nice sail. Having done that and considered things more at length seems the window thing will not end well. raising my cognitive awareness to ‘looking at others’ ( perhaps an obvious suggestion !) I had assumed the 150 max on the window was to prevent you making a sail with a mylar radial diagonal panel from the clew over to the luff but maybe it’s just a mistake – or is it !?. Interestingly I always thought that in the event of interpretation or ambiguity ‘Rules’ prevail. I know this won’t end well for me.
HOWEVER ‘On the good side’ – I have now joined the association and purchased a PSN (number 100) better still one receives a certificate ( oh Vanity !) – and fixtures for next year are about to be published ‘any day now’ -So i can thread things around my motor racing and then drop it into conversation with my family(wife) that weekends have maybe become i little more crowded in the calendar !!
Robbo

[Bill B]

Hi,

I have asked this question and the answer I have is that the rules are incorrect and that the window should be more than 150mm from the edge. This has happened somewhere in reproducing through ISAF and will be corrected. I hope I have this right – I think it is 150mm min from edge on the 2003 version!
Bill

[Lauge]

Just to set the record straight for Chris.. The OK sailors of Denmark are split in regards to the Road Map, and the means of funding the “strategy”
The MAP was agreed upon in Melbourne,without the presence of our Chairman Christian (Meeting was moved ahead without notice) replaced by Malte Petersen

Did we vote today, Im sure the outcome would be different from DK side.

Funding is needed, but a the thread also reveals, the sail label is just plain stupid, and I’ll explain why.

Sailmaker will have to stock these labels from after January 1st, they’ll cost GBP 10,- equivalent to Dkr. 100,- which is supposed to equal the revenue to OKDIA. They will be VAT free from OKDIA side, but sailmaker will add GBP 15,- for the stichting adding it up to 25,- plus VAT.

This means that you will pay (DK VAT 25%) Dkr 312,50 in order to create a revenue to OKDIA of Dkr. 100,-

Is this common sense ? or just plain stupid ?

B. Rgds
Jens Lauge
DEN 10

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