Strategic Road Map
28th May 2014 at 4:28pm #1151
WOW that took some reading. Mixed feelings. Not so sure how this will be received.28th May 2014 at 7:20pm #7435
Don’t want to prejudice the argument. Robert has obviously done a lot of work on this and we would all want a stronger International Association BUT there is no indication about any actions that might be taken to achieve the objectives set out in the “Roadmap” except for raising funds.
Personally I disagree with OKDIA organising a Worlds or Europeans. To suggest that undermines National Associations and obviously OKDIA are not aware of how much visiting and liaison is involved (I’ve helped with this at Parkstone and Largs so I have first hand experience).
Would appointing and paying a “Class Manager” mean that everyone else sits back and waits for things to happen? Far better to pay various members to carry out specific tasks eg producing a newsletter or maintaining a website or organising training sessions in different countries (definitely not visiting Africa, America or Asia). Personally I’m in favour of “payment by results”
Would members vote for paying an additional £15 on their annual sub? Those who attend Nationals and International events probably would but not club members in Preston or milton Keynes – so we would lose members and be in a weaker position financially to carry out our current activities eg. Dinghy Show, website, Nationals etc.
Why are we in such a rush to move to a vote in July with barely 8 weeks to carry out any meaningful consultation when things like carbon masts took several years. This “roadmap” has far more important implications and could split National Associations down the middle, and/or force them away from OKDIA.
I would also be against removing the requirement that the executive contain a spread of Nationalities. Already we have far too much influence emanating from one country. The workings of OKDIA are extremely difficult for an ordinary member to follow as no minutes or discussions of meetings are published except for AGM or SGMs.
I could go on but please read the proposals and e-mail me with your thoughts, or put them on this Forum and I’ll start collating.
Andy28th May 2014 at 10:18pm #7436robertParticipant
Hopefully there is going to be a lot of dicussion on this. But there is no rush. Nothing will be voted on at the SGM, except in principle. It is just a discussion. This follows the discussions from last year, so the basic premise is nothing new, it has just been taken one step further and formalised, as well as expanded.
Those present can voice opinions, can take these ideas back to their national associations and there can (and must) be a wider discussion. The worst thing that can happen, in my opinion, is if this all goes through with no objection. We want objections and other ideas and we want the flaws ironed out. It is in no way perfect, just our best first stab. If things seem wrong please say so. If you have a better idea, please tell us.
In no way does any of this replace the invaluable work carried out by the National Secretaries and local organisers. There is no way OKDIA can or should shoulder that responsibility. The role within the strategy is just one of increased oversight so we can travel in confidence to new countries and the sailors can expect the same quality event every year.
My plan is to post the whole thing on a wall at the Europeans with space for comments so during the week the sailors can add remarks and ‘vote’ on each proposal so we get a general feeling of what is going to work and what isn’t.
Rest assured, it’s the first step on a HUGE undertaking and nothing will be done lightly.29th May 2014 at 9:32am #7437
This is a lot to take in. I will also add that I think most will not even bother making comment or, in fact, even finish reading it. I would suggest it is way above the concern of the majority of the club OK sailors.
That might in some eyes be wrong, but the class is not all about OKDIA.
Many country’s members are happy, and have been for a large number of years, paying their subs some not even owning boats. I could see this support dropping if the costs increase.
I can understand the Objectives in the plan all except the paid post which can only be paid for by increasing revenue. The bulk of this revenue can only come from its members. How? By increasing our fees and costs for services. Not sure about this.
The talk of 2000 members by 2017, however nice this might be, do we really believe this is realistic? I don’t think so. The dreamers, boat builders, sail makers, etc might like to think it was. I don’t even think talking about 4000 by 2024 (10 years) is any thing like realistic.
The talk of new and more events of high standard, some in exotic venues, is all well and good but do members have pockets that deep to attend more events. Would more events really attract more entries?
I would suggest more quality open meetings in members own countries are a better option assuming they want to attend. Some members are happy and should be supported if they only want to sail at their own club. Why should they pay for those who might want more. A big drive and support in our own countries is the key to increasing numbers.
I think in the UK this is taking place, the likes of Jim Hunt and Nick Craig have given our class a high profile. The build quality of boats and sails is also high, in the UK people can now buy boats and equipment of a high standard. This in itself will attract more support/members.
So I think I will leave this subject here and read others comments. Like Andy I could write more but to be truthful I struggle to take the proposal, especially the projected membership numbers, seriously. Ken Carroll GBR 213929th May 2014 at 9:54am #7438davecooperParticipant
(I’ll post the roadmap on this website, if that’s ok, Robert?)
Uh-huh! Bit of muddled thinking going on here! You can see what happened:
1. We need a paid guy to run stuff in OKDIA.
2. How much do we need to pay him? Answer: £20,000 pa
3. How many members do we have? Answer: 800
4. So that’s £20,000/800 = £25 per member per year….. I don’t think the membership are going to like that.
5. OK, how about £10 per member per year? Mmm, maybe. Just means expanding the membership to 2000. That can be
the paid guy’s first job!
It’s a circular argument! OKDIA will employ someone to boost the membership so that they can afford to employ someone.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t explain how he’s going achieve this without any kind of budget, or even how it’s going to be feasible at all. All these extra guys? It looks like we’re going to need to build 400 boats a year for the next three years just so they all have something to sail, cos they sure aren’t going to join the Class Assoc unless they have a boat!
Really, I think OKDIA’s priority zero should be to build a channel of communication to the membership. I don’t think I’m alone in feeling that OKDIA are remote, impenetrable and not really in touch. Something like this roadmap comes up and it’s kind of dumped on the membership, then voted on at a venue that most of them won’t be attending anyway: OKDIA needs to open up the process and involve everyone if they want to build a stronger association.
Dave29th May 2014 at 11:39am #7439GregParticipant
Firstly I probably should not be saying any of this but someone has to. If you moan and bitch about paying 15 quid more a year to be part of this great class then maybe you don’t belong in it. My guess it is less than 5 pints a year! At the moment £1.50 of what you pay goes to OKDIA. I guess you are happy with what is done with the rest of your subs.
It is hard enough getting someone to volunteer to do all the work required just to keep the class in the stagnant place it is now let alone help it grow. Sorry but I never seem to see the hands raised high by the people who moan about any possible move forward.
This plan is just a plan at this stage. You should all be happy someone has some vision of the future or believe me the class will just fade away quickly if left alone. Just trying to get the class rules to comply with the equipment rules is a full time job that no-one has time for. We all do other things in life as well and this is supposed to be fun.
Andy suggested that OKDIA should have no part in organising worlds or europeans but he knows well that the organisation for Largs done by a few people only and in the end it was probably the worst worlds in terms of support from the home country. A record low turnout by the English at their own worlds. If I had to choose between largs and barbados I know what I would save for and the cost for the rest of the world would be similar. I have no idea if OKDIA had organised it whether or not this would have been different but maybe some help might have changed things.
Personally I am for something to be done. It does not have to be this plan but it needs to be a plan. I have had nothing to do with the road map and saw it the same time you guys did apart from the talk before in Thailand and Carnac. It is nothing new that the class is growing finally after a lot of years of nothing happening. This should continue and it needs to be managed in some way. Leaving things as they are with just overworked volunteers will not help at all. I am sure in the end we all want the same thing which is a strong healthy class with boats available to buy and good sailing in nice places.
Greg29th May 2014 at 1:44pm #7440FinnParticipant
There are some interesting comments there, some of which I agree with, some I don’t.
In terms of OKDIA being distant it might be worth talking with the UK delegates about this. I’m a member of both the UK & NZ associations & I get an lot more “International” type info via the NZL email group than I do via UK communication channels. So the info does find it’s way down if the communication channels are working.
2000 members & £20K employee. Which is the chicken & which is the egg?
As Greg points out, £15 really isn’t much money in real terms, but it is a 40% increase that club level sailors probably perceive as being of little value. Perhaps a tiered membership model could be incorporated?
However,I think things like the Personal Sail numbers and these sort “luxuries” are where we should be looking for revenues rather upping the cost of the basics. Perhaps the numbers could even be auctioned (annually/bi-annually) to increase revenue further from the most desirable numbers. 007 anyone?
Being an OKDIA document it does have a higher level/overview/broad brush type air to it, that is probably of little interest to club level sailors. So, I’d certainly agree that the promotion of the class needs to happen at a grass roots level, by putting on high quality National/Open events that people want to go to.
The proposed homogenisation is probably a welcome to the market where quick fit solutions are desired and to compete with other classes, but needs to be carefully managed. One of the key factors in my attraction to the class was the flexibility within the one design framework.
A printed International magazine is expensive and antiquated. Utilising PDF, ipad etc (with perhaps printed media as a cost option/part of a tiered membership model), is a modern international delivery model without the cost of printing & postage, while perhaps spending the difference on making it of high graphical quality, not dissimilar to a commercial magazine.
Likewise, the web presence is pivotal In presenting a modern and well organised class especially to the potential member. The website (both National & OKDIA) could use modernisation is their graphical interface. The UK site content is good & current, but a format/graphical interface like that of the Phantom class would present much better. The OKDIA site seems to have little content on offer. On the whole I’d welcome a more Internationally central portal for National class associations.
My tuppence for what its worth.29th May 2014 at 1:56pm #7442
I don’t think I said OKDIA should have NO PART in organising a Worlds or Europeans event. On the contrary some advice during the planning stage would be invaluable. All we got were a lot of moans about the wrong shaped sail numbers and the weather during the events. Neither did we ever receive any thanks from OKDIA for the tremendous amount of effort that everyone on the UK Class Association had put in, which makes one much less likely to volunteer to help with any future events. Maybe I’m just old fashioned in expecting common courtesies from OKDIA.
Andy29th May 2014 at 6:23pm #7441davecooperParticipant
Come on okdia! I want to hear how you expect to grow the class 250% in three years, apparently with no budget for advertising or promotion, because otherwise this employee thing isn’t going to work. Just telling us we’re workshy slackers who don’t deserve to be class members doesn’t explain it.
(Phantom class website?? Looks like the interior of a coal mine! And more to the point, CMS sites may look cool but I don’t think it’s easy to get xml content to integrate, so big result sets (Travellers, World rankings) would be hell to post and take hours. Html may be old hat but it certainly is flexible)29th May 2014 at 8:47pm #7443burtParticipant
boat turnover and realistic pricing for second hand boats…29th May 2014 at 10:34pm #7434robertParticipant
Thanks for the feedback so far.
Finn – I like your ideas, especially the tiered approach as that gets round a lot of probems, even though it reduces potential revenue
Dave – did you see anything postive at all in the document?
Burt – more words please. At least, a full sentence would be nice.
Ken – projections are always ambitious guesswork. maybe too ambitious, but I reckon there could be as many non members with OKs out there as there are members. First task is to attract them back to being a paying member.If Okdia can help in that task, then that should be a priority.
To maintain the integrity of the class, and the value of your boat needs a huge investent in time, administration and resources that none of us have. In general this has to be done internationally rather than nationally so that all nations are conforming to the same procesess and systems.
The list of jobs in the strategy is not some job-creation scheme, it’s all the important stuff we have talked about for years and which no one has had time to implement. Carrying out these tasks in an effective and efficient manner is long over due. Do we have any volunteers, if the idea of paid, professional help is crushed because you think £15, or whatever, is too much to pay?
To answer this point, for example…
“Really, I think OKDIA’s priority zero should be to build a channel of communication to the membership. I don’t think I’m alone in feeling that OKDIA are remote, impenetrable and not really in touch. Something like this roadmap comes up and it’s kind of dumped on the membership, then voted on at a venue that most of them won’t be attending anyway: OKDIA needs to open up the process and involve everyone if they want to build a stronger association.”
“build a channel of communication” this is a fundamental part of the strategy. It’s written all over it.
” dumped on the membership” these ideas have been discussed for over a year including at the 2013 SGM and the British AGM. It’s even minuted on the okdia website. http://www.okdia.org/association/documents/2013-SGM-Minutes-Carnac-v1.pdf
“voted on at a venue that most of them won’t be attending anyway” you only need one person to vote and they can vote vote by post in Melbourne. The discussion should take place before the AGM anyway. The AGM is not the place to discuss rule changes.
“OKDIA needs to open up the process” is this not what we are now doing? Eight months before the vote…
People, please let’s focus on positive outcomes, not pick at holes, even though they may well be present. This could be a really exciting time for the class, you just need to share in the vision, or some of it, that has been presented here and help us find the best way forward.
Robert30th May 2014 at 9:23am #7444
Thanks for the post Robert. First of all I should like to say that there is nothing wrong with ‘vision’. I, for one, do support the Maps objectives, how these goals are achieved is the issue.
You state that there may be as many non-members as members, I cannot comment on that but surely some stats are available to prove or disprove this.
You then go on to say that we need to attract those non-members back (assuming they were members in the first place). Then you say that OKDIA could help in this task, how?
Do we need to see a plan of ‘objective priorities’, ie what would be tasked first?
With regard to the paid post, what will the job description say, and what would be his/her priority duties. Maybe if the members could see this it would help.
You move on to say £15 per member could be added on to each country’s individuals Association fees to fund this post. One person has said that if we can’t afford £15 each (an extra £15 each by the way) then maybe we shouldn’t be members. This sort of statement doesn’t help the issue.
Looking at some logistics, using the existing 800 members quoted, let’s say 775 decide they want to pay the extra £15, this would generate an extra £11625 a year, a long way short of the £20K salary being talked about.
Then there are the projected membership figures, 2000 rising to 4000, it’s not realistic. Let’s assume that we see a positive move towards more people sailing the OK, a realistic figure for the next 2 to 3 years worldwide could be 100 to 150 boats tops. So your 775 members could increase to @ 900 giving an extra income of £1875. So a total of £13500 extra per annum, still a long way short.
The projected figures just don’t balance however much vision you have.
I will share the vision and share the objectives but seriously don’t see how it’s going to add up. Tell us how it is going to work.
Ken Carroll GBR213930th May 2014 at 10:17am #7445GregParticipant
Actually I said that if you moan about paying it not if you can’t afford it. Look at it another way. What do you get for whatever you pay now in subs from your association? Is it value for money. Would you be prepared to pay a bit more to get a lot more? Or something?
No-one has said from what I have read that this paid position would be in place before the funding is there. I imagine it is like any responsible business and would not hire what they can’t afford.
I know an awful lot of ex OK sailors out there who would be happy to pay some kind of membership fee to stay a part of the class if they got something for it. At the moment I am a member of 2 associations and one gives value for money I think and the other I wonder where it goes and what on. I do know that almost nothing of what I pay goes to OKDIA and yet we expect them to provide guidance and do the work for the class on our behalf. Believe me it is a lot of time and energy. Things that we are all running short of these days. Hence the need for a change. There has never been a queue of people wanting these jobs and that is unlikely to change. The reality is that unless some things get done and soon then the class will really be in the shit. We will have boats that are not the same as the rules are in places ambiguous at best and confusing or unenforceable at worst. Right now there are boats coming out of England that have huge question marks over the legality of them. Who has to sort this out? You guys? I think you would be the first to blame OKDIA for illegal boats being used when the structures in place are different in each country. Another thing to get sorted out.
All this talk of the money is just more time wasting. Either you buy into the idea that we need to do something to help with the growth or help it grow or you don’t. Now is the chance and the time to do this while the committee has the vision and the will to get it started.30th May 2014 at 10:35am #7446burtParticipant
“You state that there may be as many non-members as members, I cannot comment on that but surely some stats are available to prove or disprove this.”
There is a very simple way to prove this, we have 800 members worldwide (if I’ve read it right) yet the UK alone has built over 2000 boats and while I understand that there are some scrapped re registered in other countries etc etc… its difficult to believe that there are only 800 being used even if it is only a jolly for an hour on a pond.
Expanding on my slightly inebriated comment, we should look to compound membership as well as grow it. boats need to be made accessible perhaps a pricing guide? this could encourage people to join the class but we need to offer them something more in return. This could be an international newsletter supported by advertising, certainly volunteering for this is going to consume someones day to day. Which is where a paid post could come in, also we don’t have to pay them £20000 straight away we could start with a part time role with a view to grow into a full time role or pay them less and give them targets for pay increases?
ps is that better woblert?30th May 2014 at 2:44pm #7447
Burt – how are your bones coming along? Ready to go sailing yet?
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